God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. LGB FAQs : Power Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. no it isn't. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Serious or fatal injuries may result. This is why my wife loves me so. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. What type is your old transformer? Sign-up for email today! Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. Mark. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. Transformer Sizing Calculator Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Our community is FREE to join. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? It is important to remember that the real test of the power supply is the load you'll place on it. White and black are common selections. Model train power falls into one of three categories. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. Safety first. Transformer Calculator KVA Calculator Full Load Amps Calculator These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. how much track can a transformer handle? | Model Train Forum Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? What is the best transformer to use? - O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum OTTS Founder Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. If you like, tell us more about yourself. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. American Flyer Trains Basic Operating Information Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts - The Spruce Crafts I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! I have had the same problem. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Why Do Lionel Trains Have 3 Rails? | Worldwide Rails I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! Expanding Your Lionel Starter Set - Trainz The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. This thing has more power then I will ever need. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. Model train transformer- 6 steps to understanding how they work Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). electronically controlled outputs. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. In some cases. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. What does a Lionel transformer do? I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Just not quite as much. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. [:)]. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Been there, done that. This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Model Train Scales & Gauges: The Lionel Trains Guide The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. Past,presentand future. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Lionel Electric Toy Train Transformer Identification Guide Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. the amount of track is not what is important here. If they do, follow their recommendations. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. You must be signed in to continue. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? This is interesting stuff. 7 Best Transformer For Model Railway - LEDS.CC Why Sign In? Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. How to correctly size a transformer | Consulting - Specifying Engineer All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. JavaScript is disabled. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. Never had a problem. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. They are fun to have. Effort. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. What gauge wire is used for Lionel trains? - Sage-Advices Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon Price Received. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Getting Started - 3 RAIL TRAINS The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Adding lights to buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories usually do not require anywhere near the amperage demand of the trains themselves. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Are you running command or conventional? Different wiring projects call for different standards. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track.
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