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All rights reserved. The G30 is a high-launching game improvement design. But what about the mid and low irons, yes I understand some companies make 6/7 hybrids (7 and up is very rare), but you can not really replace an 8 iron with a true hybrid. Your link has been automatically embedded. Undershooter If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. Surely getting consistent results and regular yardage gaps between clubs is more important than shooting for some ideal stats that may go against your natural swing? If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? Brent Grant always brings the energy ?? Brilliant information ! Great article. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. St Louis, MO. Add loft for distance?????? Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Does that create the maximum distance for that ball speed? TM TP UDi #3, MC 4-7, MB 8-P w/ Tour V S+ Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. The Ever Changing Bag! Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. You may want to try searching if you need more info. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. Pasted as rich text. . Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 Might actually help on hard ground. Worked very well IMO in terms of reducing spin You will need to check your distances with these gapped lofts. I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. 4-6 more yards (depending on club and swing speed) and lower launch with less bounce. Bending irons 2 degrees stronger gopher99 May 9, 2021 May 9, 2021 Thread starter #1 G gopher99 Active member Joined Mar 15, 2019 Messages 233 Hi, i need some info from the more knowledgeable people on here than myself, I would like to bend my mizuno 921 forged irons 2 degrees stronger to fit in with the gapping on my wedges. VokeySM6 Raw- 50F, Scotty Cameron X5R Flow Neck Torched Finish. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. Another point regarding GI/SGI clubs that I would love to see a fitter touch on is shaft length. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. They wont question a fitter who recommends that they switch to a 10.5-degree driver instead of an 8.5 or 9.5, because those are established as acceptable driver lofts. Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth it, especially if you already take a divot. They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. Would they still be ideal? In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. So, I am now waiting for a major brand to market and advertise that their new, weaker lofts will add distance for most golfers. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. I am in favor of weaker lofts. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. I just switched from Wilson Ci9 to Taylormade TP MC, and Ive gained almost 15 yards despite the lofts being higher. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood, Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Your previous content has been restored. there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? Including me. What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. One good example comes to mind. Featured Section: But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. That is a two club difference. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. I am constantly amazed at how many golfers are trying to play the game with a fundamentally unsound hold of the club. "If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. (I ran into this today.) Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. Epoxy Curing Times for Golf Clubs, Work Life and Shear Strength. Good info to pass along regarding COG. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. When looking for clubs that fit your game, a professional club fitter will look at these factors down below to determine what their lie angle should be: I know this concept can be confusing, especially if you have never been fit for golf clubs before. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. In my experience I have seen guys in the 8-14 handicap range with moderate ball speed try X Hot irons, and see much better results with the Rocketbladez. If you can get it in the air, no problem. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. Product Instructions & Manuals By NYonce. And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. Good point. With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver After the death of his mother, Endycott understandably struggled through the late teens, understandably saying that, At the time, golf didnt really matter to me.. I think it depends on the player and his swing. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW :-). My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Craig, If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Step 3. What the heck are they were talking about? -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X", Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions), Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). How much of static bounce is positive at impact?..we have to start from a static bounce of MORE than the difference to have any, and 31* minus 20.2* = 10.8 static bounce is needed to get ZERO. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. Maybe its conceptually challenging but when all sets came 3-PW with heads the size of your pinky-toe, golfers either left their 3 iron home or just used it for low punch shots back to the fairway; back then, a well-hit 6 iron would outdistance an over-muscled 3 iron seven times out of 10. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. Will it affect offset? A lot of mixing and matching But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? I also don't mind the little more offset I don't over cut it. This also gives me room for more wedges. How will that affect it though? Generally bending lofts on irons unless you are tweaking them to even out a gap. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . Pasted as rich text. Pros and cons? ENTER NOW! The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. What I havent seen mentioned is that iron shafts have changed a great deal and offer more low kick (higher launch/spin) options to be able to match with those lofts. I've bent tons of clubs. Whether its changing the lie to improve accuracy or changing loft to make sure that the players clubs are progressively consistent, angle bending is a major factor in club performance. There is no question that golf is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, games in which to become reasonably proficient. Newer irons, however, are designed with a loft angle that is between 18 and 22 degrees. So I changed my swing to compress the ball better instead, and just took extra club and swing easy. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Thanks for the insight! Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! Tiger Woods plays his irons in weaker lofts and he doesnt seem to have any distance issues! 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" Upload or insert images from URL. If anything I am a digger in the golf swing. weight removed), (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. Restore formatting, Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? Having spent a lot of his childhood in Hawaii and now on a course that will reward his best asset, Grant can justify this snippet from a recent interview: Fortunately for me, I grew up in the wind.. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. You cannot paste images directly. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. You must log in or register to reply here. A wind-affected island track that offers rewards for aggression. Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. weight removed), Ball:1. So the assumption is that the loft alone is what is creating more distance with the new irons. From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. Bottom line: bending 2* strong may or may not cause issues. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Privacy Policy It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. Seriously. And yes it is common to not have an iron longer than 6 or 5 for some of these guys because they carry them all the same distance, and then hybrids come into play. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. Lots of good comments here. Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. well unfortunately people buy clubs based on their ego and the club manufactures feed it. Sounds like it's a long iron. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. All rights reserved. The simple fact is that good golf cannot be played with a bad grip on the club. Clamp the piece of angle iron into the vise. What do you mean about not seeing any changes in your irons? Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. And its one of only two elements of the golf swing that require absolutely no physical skills. The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. Check out the different lie angles of a standard 8 iron from these three companies: I know that the difference between these angles doesnt seem like much. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground.