I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. Whats wrong with you women? If they are self impressed with the numbers who attend WCC, they have a problem. its all changed. Recently posted by the Chicago Tribune, which has tracked this story since breaking it in March: Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations.. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. And a pedestal they can fall from and did. One thing Im certain of, Bill Hybels would NEVER have hired men like Paul or Peter to be teaching pastors at Willow. These things dont work without followers and their money. @ Barbara Roberts: Things add up all too well, sadly. @ Forrest: And the devil is not after your church, WC. I have seen it for over 20 years. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. But, I seriously doubt your using scripture as a club will shame, convince or condemn many here. just questioning a seeker sensitive approach can bring down a fair amount of push -back , heat, and attacks on your faith So, now the geru of it has resigned, over minor or mad eup attacks?? One-World ANYTHING is a recognition signal for End Time Prophecy Wack Job. People of Willow Creek, save your church by demanding resignations from he full Elder Board and lead pastors. Its never about us, but always focused on Jesus the Perfecter of our faith. Read Acts 4 and 5. I leave all matters of *who is and who is not a real Christian* In the capable hands of the One who has a higher pay grade. Less excusable is the behavior of the elders after it started coming out. Read the Bible. I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way maybe they never really had them. Theres something to these accounts. Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. Some more publicly than others. Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. Rudyard Kipling, The Picts Song (about guerilla warfare), Ok. Ok. I believe her account. @ Davis and Natasha: Nothing more. @ Erp: Written in 1999! I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. Because it was not entirely clear what happened. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? You just described me. In 2018, sexual misconduct allegations had been alleged against Bill Hybels. But I believe the women who have been abused by Bill Hybels are telling the truth. Just listening to Hybels extol the leadership virtues of Heather Lawson (another blonde) was enough to make me wonder, Is anyone else hearing and seeing this? His own wife (Lynne) is very different from the women Hybels mentored. And I never understood why Hybels did not step down when his wife (Lynne) had a HUGE crisis of faith. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. With the way some are acting, they mimic Hybels anger and vindictiveness rather than Christ. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. I dont see how Willow Creek can move forward with the existing board. Paul spoke up, and evidently appropriate action was taken, for which the Church at large benefitted. Dont work for Megas, folks. This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. How many church leaders are not of His sheep ? This is Uncharted Territory for them. This fact is well known to those who are around sexual abuse/misconduct situations. They did, however, write books, and traveled from local church to local church. You are guilty of judging, something you say we are not to do. You 2 probably believe Jesus was Jewish as well as all the disciples. But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. This year in 2018, Bill has been publicly accused of sexual harassment and h e has resigned from the megachurch he and Lynne founded. It does not promise moonlight, roses and a string quartet. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. Incidentally, I am sure there are many nuances to the science, and I make no claim to be an expert. 1:17-25 ESV). Once again, that is left in the capable Hands of our Father. So call the best pastor you can, but the best pastor is the most Christ-like, not the most TV-ready. Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. Huge. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. One comment not allowed. Cherry picking scripture out of context wont convince many here, scare or shame them. So what does that say about what he thinks of me that he thinks he can help himself to my woman? It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? Lengthy quotes rarely get read and can be annoying. Bill Hybels touched me, hugged me invited me to his room I left then went to my hotel room and cried.. We have some good news to give to the world. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. There was also some sort of one world conspiracy deal. Maybe Im misinterpreting. Mahaney books. The Elders reviewed none for content. And, no, it does not minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. Dimensions: 0.6" x 5.4" x 8.0" Age Range: 18 years and up Paul Aurandt Jr. Best Study Bible! @ Davis and Natasha: Either way, doesnt matter. Her courage will be an inspiration many others. Of course, you have move people beyond that into a mature relationship with the Lord and some megas neglect this. And it is *by design*! Church Discipline Everything is about Conformity today. Shameful! truthseeker wrote: @ AbuseCrusher: He told me he had taken Ambien. Sitting there talking is not the problem. These are tools, and can be applied to any agenda just change the talking points. Speak the Word when it is time and serve with love always. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg Im thinking of 2 comments right now from over a year ago in which you reposted comments you attempted to post elsewhere. It would seem the as yet unnamed individual, reported to have had an affair, has legal claim against multiple parties. If this very not such a serious matter, their would be some humor in this. Strange things are happening on Twitter on this case. 1 comment deleted. It occurred shortly after she had divorced her first husband. * Scripture does not discuss it that way. Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. The similarities in these womens stories were striking. Even the innocent in Israel lived with the ensuing upheaval. Weve heard it before Drugs made me do it Alcohol made me do it My wife made me do it etc. Or perhaps I am not getting it that this is the official stand of the elders, as well as Hybels. But it is also more than ethics here. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. I go even further with it, Jack. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Im probably sensitive about this because Ive seen the this is what you get for being an egalitarian on social media and it drives me nuts. If John Ortberg was a heel, I dont see how that has any bearing on the situation. @ Davis and Natasha: Just wondering??? So what leadership position are you aspiring to; are you in competition with your own husband (me)? They adopted the commercial business approach. People handle things. The inner motivations and thoughts of an individual. Gossip! How long are you going to allow Satan to control your actions? @ AbuseCrusher: Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it? Read this account posted by Vonda Dyer. @ Law Prof: Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. Buy my books, listen to my sermons, attend my conferences! Just think what you could do with a well placed suggestion after taking Ambien. So, yes, Id vouch for his legitimacy. What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? My team of outsourced profs, quality tech people saw it, too. When will people get it that the church is not the same thing as the body of Christ. We still do not know what that really means. The Spirit does the work: both in the calling and in the conversion. Big. The Buckner Show has been cancelled; we now return this time slot to the regularly-scheduled Wartburg Watch.. Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? Thats how they get by with it. I though this was sarcasm but maybe she really was arguing that Bill should have that level of influence on anyone-let alone everyone he was bringing along. yikes! and further question.. @ Thersites: The fact that just a bunch of us posting our opinions on blogs can cause such a ruckus tells me we are touching infected nerves.. I think Bill Hybels is an intelligent man. Im not out to defend Rob Bell, but Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy, at least based on historical Christianity. i can not think of any good reason the pastor would want that! . plus Ive read very wise authors like: Don Hennessy an relationship counselor in Ireland who has worked for decades in the field of domestic abuse. And to think that Willow Creek notables have been hanging out with him! Is it not I, the LORD? They wouldnt have been good enough speakers. . Or perhaps some women get hugged one way or the other disproportionately for one reason or the other and therefore complain or not about hugging-ness. . I know this because I have experienced it myself. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. At least you know what they are upfront . If you want to highlight, in every comment, this is not your blog. It was not well written It was a farce and all those behind it need to get a reality check. Hybels, the influential founder and pastor willow creek, resigned in april 2018 after 42 years leading the church. This video was shot in and aroundKirkenesand Pas National Park bordering Russia, at 70 degree north and 30 degrees east. The Body does not put its faith in humans, even celebrity ones. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! Too much time, money and hero worship. (Big clue there, folks) And people will do that by making the others, worse. This is MBA stuff. Betty Schmidt gave 5 specific ways the current Willow Creek elders have misquoted and misrepresented her. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. You are right, the whole situation smells of cover-up. But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. Learn to value yourself. This morning, Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded Women on her website. Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Why wait until now?? William Edward (Bill) LaBarre of Marietta passed away at his home at 1:52 AM Saturday, February 25, 2023 surrounded by his family. To TWW regulars: I am becoming concerned that there will be a full court press by some people. I am not surprised at all that it will get ugly There are people that are totaly sold out to seeker sensitive approch. As we passed through the line I asked him if he would like a hug and he said he would. It is in the section entitled, An inquiry begins, about halfway down the page. Im not saying any of that is right. I think I hugged my coworker of ten years when he retired, Paul actually recommends we greet one another with a holy kiss.. Ever thought of switching to WordPress? Remember Bill hybels stepped down. My husband was so proud that he got to met the Bill Hybels and was so happy that he got to talk to him and have his picture taken with Bill Hybels. This is church. Finally, we are told to have high standards for our teachers. If WC folds, its a clear indication. Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. So much! I think people are starting to realize that even if someone starts out with good intentions, when they get power and money, they tend to be corrupted. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) Jodi Walle, who worked for John Ortberg, has written a note. Here you will get Bill Hybels's net worth, weight, height net worth, girlfriend, educational qualification and complete bio. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Bill Hybels is a legendary figure in the world of business. This reminds me of Bob Packwood, a former senator from my state. No one walks away unascathed. Thank goodness at least that at church when we pass the peace we literally clasp a hand briefly and say peace (literally that) and this is the entire procedure. Willow wont even list Mars Hill on Steve Carters website bio. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. If the 21st century church had the same healthy respect for a literal hell that the 1st century church had, we might behave differently in and out of church including church leaders! I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. Your comment covers a lot of ground I am all too familiar with. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. Are you aware, Mr. Brucker, that you are essentially playing with a full house or a straight flush in the rationalization department? RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. Willow Creek / Bill Hybels had IT powered by the Ambien Operating System. He sees things.. Lets put all our conjecture up about the retracted affair as well. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. Be an individual. Good night!!! Realizing it WAS NOT YOU. And once thats done, the only way to survive is to seize the throne Myself. It is incredibly sad to see. @ okrapod: But one thing I know, we have a choice in our behaviors. That length is reserved for the husband/wife relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time. They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. That isnt what I was talking about and I should have clarified. Its all lies doesnt cut it and sounds ridiculous. It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels unwanted attention and actions. There will be a full court press to save Hybels legacy. I am disappointed at the congregation who gave the standing ovations but they havent been told all the facts. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. Activism. Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. 1 comment about arms Bill Cosby, no less, but under the umbrella of a church. Ok, except that no one I know has heard of Willow Creek or Bill Hybels. When the founding big cheeses are gone (sorta) the factions start forming. Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? If it doesnt recur, people often try to dismiss it as an aberration. You can trust Jesus and He is your perfect role model. Even our laws in the US lead to punishment o f one chooses to disobey them . There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. U.S. Pastor Allegations. I was never a member, but many family members were including on the entertainment, I mean worship, team. I hope you are right about this. The founding couple died, and the board got rid of those naughty kids and grandkids. It means wearing Gods name like a banner (CHRIST-ian Leader) and then doing terribly ungodly things that represent Him poorly. As a victim-advocate and blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone. Its so clear how this happened on the womens part. I double dog dare every Creeker to demand to see a detailed budget. BTW, when I confronted him publicly, his response wasnt, I didnt do it, but You wanted me to. A married man twice my age, I might add, who nobody liked. These people have patience for the long con. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? This has not only damaged women but also affected men, like my husband, who looked up to Bill Hybels as a positive role model. I want to express my gratitude to Nancy for coming forward. Please stop reporting about Jodis letter. Read Acts 2. not for this long. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. You are now in permanent moderation. But on the wider scope, I asked the folks a work today if they knew what was happening at Willow Creek. He wanted to find out if she was still angry with him and what she would do about it if she was. That said, I am still very thankful for the work of Willow Creek. Weve seen all kinds of abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the truth. I understand the victim mentality, I have been a victim, but his repentance has little to do with the womens healing. JIHAD! They collected funds for widows and orphans, and then distributed those funds as promised. there will be a pendulum swing away from megachurches. Wondering if the old frog in the pot was happening at the church, including John Ortberg. Narcissistic, abusive leaders are masterful manipulators, and even the most intelligent, cynical, questioning people can be taken under their spell without knowing it has happened. So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. OK. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. I am quite curious what nonsense what posted now, because what?! During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. Hee hee. The man who assaulted me regularly made passes at women in public. Dont ever close the door to the tutoring office if a student is in there *especially female students. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. A less intimidating way to do that is a diary of sorts. Very valuable comment. Perhaps its just honest ignorance, perhaps its denial. She claims Bill Hybels brought up the incident in Hawaii about the ambien. One was at the Heidelblog about Tom Chantry and one at the Wee Flea about Iain Campbell, and both bloggers were commanding readers not to gossip, slander, or even form an opinion because we dont know anything, and maybe we dont even WANT to know anything. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. When we finally did start talking, everyone called us liars. After all, there were so many good things that had been done and so many accolades given. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. Know who you are. So, Ive also read it in the Original Languages. My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. Really? Religious, but spiritually destitute. Churches are in the state they are in because they refuse to seek truth and call the words of victims gossip. He is met with a standing ovation and a promised time to honor him and his family. I did this research a while back, so if Im remembering right, a few things I read indicated that the evidence destroyed/withheld would automatically be assumed to be against the legal case of those who destroyed/withheld it, and the jury was instructed that they were required to view the situation that way. That is stunning. The whole church is in our thoughts and prayers. Then the man of God acts as if nothing happened.. Bill Hybels touched me, hugged me invited me to his room I left then went to my hotel room and cried.. Whether anyone associated with any of his accusers is a jerk or not, I fail to see the pointunless, of course, the point is to smear whoever accuses him so that people will think twice before bringing forth any more stories. AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. Things that often included the emotional or spiritual wounding of others, if not actual physical or sexual abuse, were overlooked, out of a misplaced trust and loyalty to a so-called man of God. The FAQ document she links, however, entitled Willow Creek Response to Local Media, has mysteriously transformed itself into a 404 NOT FOUND message. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Listen to yourself, Brad! No wonder they get a God complex. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. Dont get me started on how mega churches operate. I know of one drawing up plans for an old fashioned Chapel complete with a steeple to put on their campus for those who prefer smaller churches. This pastor allowed abuse to continue under his nose and I am going to call him on it. Im no expert, but my research in such matters suggests how clever and manipulative abusers are. We werent leaders, but we can tell you re: Stowell and many others that they leave and say nothing or little to protect their own reputations and future work in ministry. We made sure I would not be placed in a situation like that again. Brought so many people to Christ. It took her 40 years(!) Hybels condemned himself. He is the founder and CEO of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), one of the most powerful and influential organizations globally. Megachurch pastors have big institutions to feed as well: huge entities that gobble millions a year, maybe hundreds of millions. Why? Gossip! I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions, Only in Christianese One-Upmanship My Piles Bigger Than Yours!. 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